Debating IR

Probing the philosophical underpinnings of the international system and anything else of interest.

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Location: Washington, D.C., United States

Currently seeking a JD at the Syracuse University College of Law. Formerly an undergraduate at American University getting a degree in international studies.

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Sunday, April 23, 2006

Jonathan Berman Responds to Criticism

Dear Phuong,

I wasn't talking about morality in my piece, Jonathan Berman Fought the Law and the Law Won. What I'm saying is that Butler is trying to tell us that the US is doing something illegal when its not.

When I say law and justice shouldn't be confused I mean that when we hear something is law we shouldn't automatically assume it is just. There are many laws that are injust in the world. We're just lucky because we live in the US, not that we're immune and laws are created by the will of the people.

However, the US has had its share of unfair laws, like the Jim Crow laws. Here you had one group of individuals, whites, use the law to oppress blacks. I don't think anyone believes that what the whites did was injust but you can't deny it was the law.

To accuse the Bush Administration of being immoral is one thing but to accuse them of breaking the law is another. If the President broke the law its as if he's defying the very authority of the US that gives it the power to make the law. If Bush did that he might as well be saying he's overthrowing the government.

On the other hand, if Bush is using his authority legitimately to do immoral things that's a whole other story. Why does Congress sit idly by Gitmo embarrases the US on a daily basis? All they have to do is pass a bill and the situation could be remedied, however, they choose not to. As a result, Bush is within his right until the law is changed hopefully when the Supreme Court rules on Hamdan in a few months that will be the case.

If the law changes I believe that would constrain Bush's actions because he certainly doesn't want to usurp the authority of the Constitution. Yet, according to Butler's mistaken analysis of the law that is exactly what she is accusing Bush of doing.

6 Comments:

Blogger Johnny B. said...

But the power to move things outside the law is granted by the American people. Until given notice by the judiciary or the legislature Bush is using his powers appropriately and in line with the wishes of the American public.

Butler's main argument is that " 'indefinite detention' is an illegitimate excercise of power" (67). If what the US is doing in Gitmo was illegal it would be very illegitimate, however, it is not. Unfortunately, the silence of Congress and the judiciary (for now) on the subject means that what the Administration is doing is perfectly legitimate.

In my opinion, what we are doing with the detainees is morally suspect and makes a hypocrisy of the US's most cherished values. However, this is the choice of our present government and the American people at the present time. It is wrong but perfectly legitimate.

2:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When you say "However, this is the choice of our present government and the American people at the present time. It is wrong but perfectly legitimate," I really think you miss the point. Bush by his words and deeds has declared Gitmo to be outside of both Congress' jurisdiction to legislate and the American judiciary's power to mediate/judicate. Therefore, even if Congress were to pass a law restricting administration actions, Bush would claim the law is void .... and he'd be right. His view of the Constitution is that it vests all of this power in the executive, including the power to declare territory out-of-legal-bounds.

8:04 PM  
Blogger Johnny B. said...

Well Shep, an opnion poll is a very vague thing. Do you really think many Americans dislike Bush because of the policy choices he made regarding Guantanamo or because of the way the Iraq war is going in general.

Next, in response to anonymous it doesn't matter what Bush says. Once Congress declares something law and Bush doesn't follow it, it will then go to the judicial system. Then and there the judiciary will decide who has the right to do what and if that's not followed then people will be in trouble. Remember it's one thing to assert something and quite another to turn it into fact.

Finally, I disagree that I am confusing legitimacy with legality. The only time the law isn't legitimate is when the state makes laws that are blatantly not followed, like in many developing countries where the government is weak.

Personally, I think you are confusing legitimacy with morality. Something can be immoral but legitimate. Jim Crow laws were immoral but still given legitimacy because the they were backed by the power of the states who made those laws.

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4:45 AM  
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